email - Doc Q. - Dec 14th 2007

From: Exodio
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 3:18 PM
To: Doc Q.
Subject: Interstellar Travel

Other than that i've been blogging a little bit on interstellar travel. Fascinating subject. I've been thinking about how the economy aboard a generation ship would work, if they would have money/credits and earn it for their jobs, or if each person would just get a stipend regardless of their position or rank. I think it depends on how many people you have. At least 800 i think is a number some people say is the minimum for establishing a colony, but i would think more would be better. Also, how do you set up the education system to make sure the inhabitants don't fall into barbarism before journey's end?



Subject: RE: Interstellar Travel
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 15:28:36 -0600
From: Doc Q.
To: Exodio

Very interesting. You basically described the classic argument for capitalism vs. communism. I would have to give that some thought. As far as number, more is always better biologically -- having a larger (and presumably healthy) gene pool will ensure diversity for adapting to change that face any group in survival over time.
It would be interesting to see how much "cultural drift" you'd get from when the colony ship leaves to when it arrives. A small and isolated group of people living by, essentially, their own code of conduct enforceable by only themselves could be really good or really bad.
I'm sure we can find historical examples both ways.



From: Exodio
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 3:54 PM
To: Doc Q.
Subject: RE: Interstellar Travel

Yes, that thought had occured to me as well. What kind of culture would end up at the other end? There are several ideas that come to mind to enforce an Earth Colony mindset, but if you are talking about a 50+ year journey, where the 3rd generation would essentially be the ones settling the planet, there would be little if any connection to Mother Earth. So to try and maintain that, either a military order would have to be established that kept to the same regimen, or a religion that would be able to "keep the faith" as it was known to the first generation.

I would be very interested to find examples of self-sustaining, isolated colonies on earth and see how they developed their own codes and conduct. And as for numbers, one thing that could be done to ensure genetic diversity wouldn't be necessarily needed over the course of only 3 or 4 generations - but the colony itself - so frozen eggs and sperm should be included in the ship's manifest to offer the greatest diversity once established planetside at the far end.



Subject: RE: Interstellar Travel
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:06:16 -0600
From: Doc Q.
To: Exodio

I think it would be impossible to keep an identical culture. Even on Earth now every culture has slightly different values (some more liberal, some more conservative) than the previous. Plus, every individual in each culture may have significant differences in values and beliefs with their peers.

So perhaps that begs the question of "What is culture?" and what keeps it together. It's also important to understand that laws are not the same as tradition and only related to values (which are always in flux -- just look at social, equality, environmental or labor laws a mere 50 years ago). Plus there's the isolation of space travel.



From: Exodio
Sent: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:56:38 -0800 (PST)
To: Doc Q.
Subject: RE: Interstellar Travel

True enough. So then it is better to discuss the possibility of changing the previous culture in a more controlled manner than just random happenstance based on events and personalities. So, is it better to try and guide cultures based on certain, pre-determined precepts than do their best to eliminate the ability to freely
choose when the choices involve the exigencies of current events? Meaning, should a "Do not kill" law be on the books, but allow the ship to determine whether that law be applicable to unforeseen circumstances?

The point I am trying to get to, is what manner of society should be striven for? Political systems need to be deeply explored and fitted to the possible outcomes aboard ship. A permissive ship society would allow the most adaptable crew in a lot of ways, so that their actions would be those uninhibited by rigid rules. This would lead to greater survivability in risk situations, at the possible expense of the ship becoming something entirely different from what we intend.

One possible paradigm would be that of military rule. the entire ship ultimately under command of the soldiers. Two things need to be addressed immediately: First, should a military presence even be considered
for a colonial voyage? Second, to which government would the military contingent be representative of? After those were determined, if the decision was Yes to the first point, then the many ramifications of that must be explored even before considering the answer to the second.

Which is really leading up to the question: What if a military-controlled ship were to spawn a colony of warriors, that ended up hostile to the government of Earth?

Don't even get me started on the religious part.